Episode 1. Feminism

Introduction

Hi, my name is Paul McKernan, and welcome to Let's Talk. Hi and welcome to Let's Talk the podcast where we discuss inclusion and its importance for the students of Ireland today. Coming up, we have an interview with Hannah Casey discussing issues regarding the topic of feminism while also adding in some clips that yous have sent in regarding your own experiences with the topic. So let's get into it.

Paul

Welcome to Let's Talk. This is the episode regarding feminism and we're joined by Hannah Casey. Hi, Hannah. How are you? What would you define as feminism and what is your opinion on it?

Hannah

Hi I'm good! Well, I would consider myself a feminist, although I feel like these days it's a bit of a taboo topic to say you're a feminist. My like my view of feminism is like at the forefront, equality. I know a lot of people think it's like women versus men, but I've always viewed it as like equality. Like I always think in feminism, you're also still fighting for things on men sides and men's rights as well as women's rights. Although it's like most movements, it's trying to fix a problem in an area that has a lot of problems. And for feminism, I think it is there is a lot of problems that need to be fixed and women's rights and women's lib. But yeah, that's my view. And I am a feminist. I just don't open with though sometimes because I can be a bit taboo.

Paul

It is, I've noticed because I'm doing research on feminism for my dissertation in mainstream music and I have noticed there seems to be still a massive taboo because even if someone in the mainstream does come out as a feminist instantly, there is a lot of hatred and a lot of it just seems to be a lot put on them just for that statement, which is quite ridiculous, especially in today's society.

But my next question is, our recent survey showed that twenty seven [percent of people] believe that women are treated equally within our society and then the remanding believed otherwise. Do you agree with the majority that there is still a massive change need to be made within our society regarding feminism?

Hannah

Yeah, I would be in the 70 percent side. I feel like we are moving definitely towards a good direction. I just maybe not so much our generation, our parents generation and their grandparents generation. I feel like there's still a big air of "women belong in the kitchen". They are the carers of the house. They make the dinner like the usual traditional things have been bred into Irish society. And I feel like there is a bit left over on our society, on our generation. But yeah, I can see it through my parents, my grandparents. So it's still a "that's a woman's job. That's a man's job." I still hear all these things and yeah. Like even like going into like a creative industry, like a lot of it is led a lot by men, especially the film industry, which I'm a bit scared to go into. But, like in Ireland. I know it's very male, let's say. So from my perspective, I think that the other is still a bit of change to do a bit of work to do it.

Paul

Do do you find as a female, the college provides a safe space for you to reach their full potential in certain interests that would be dominantly male?

Hannah

Yeah, well, as I said, like when I was choosing this course on my first day, I genuinely thought I was going to walk into a room full of men. And it just happened to be that my year was fifty/fifty. It was one hundred percent down the middle men and, well girls and boys, we weren't really men and women then [laughs]. Like, I just thought I was going to walk into a room full of men, which I know had nothing to do with the college, they didn't like push like more girls to apply. But like in that sense, going through the years, I never thought, like no roles were given more bias towards men. There was nothing. It was all equal. I feel like I definitely have a safe space. I don't see any any unfairness based on your gender. Let's say like I don't see it through my course. There could be something I'm not seeing, but I definitely don't see it. I feel like it's it's pretty, it's pretty safe space to be who you want to be and do what you want to do.

Thoughts from You

To summarise my experience. I didn't really know what I wanted to do in college, so I ended up dropping out of one course about a month in and joining a different course, I started a civil engineering course and I was hopeful that this was the right one for me. The issue I faced with joining late was I had missed induction and everyone had formed little friend groups already. It made it difficult for me to get talking to anyone. The other issue was that I was the only girl in a class of about twenty five guys. This didn't bother me. What bothered me was how my lecturers handled not only my late arrival, but the fact that I was the only girl. I found that every day I was being singled out in class and asked questions like, Do you understand this? Or Are you following? And it became less to do with the fact that I had joined late and more to do with my gender. I was getting really good grades and all the time. So I felt there was no reason for this, but it made everyone look at me differently. I felt alienated and it made made it even harder for me to make friends. I became increasingly uncomfortable in lectures and felt that there was a constant spotlight on me for no reason. I really enjoyed the content of the course, but I left it in late February because I was made feel as though I didn't belong. Comments like we don't get many girls in this course or I'm not used to having a girl here, followed by two dozen pairs of eyes always falling on me, made it so hard for me to relax and enjoy the classes. I think that if everyone, educators included, were a little more considerate and just looked at me as another student instead of the one girl, I would have stayed and done quite well. Instead, I had to put up with constant jokes at my expense and lectures, offering me help I didn't ask for and didn't need simply because they didn't seem to have any faith in me. People ask if I ever told anyone who worked at the college, but in all honesty I didn't because I felt as though I didn't have a voice and they wouldn't take me seriously. I felt this overwhelming pressure to represent my gender because I was the only girl and it felt like such a failure when I left wondering if they all expected it of me. It still angers me because I know I got really good grades better than most of my class, but it didn't matter to them. They only cared that I was a girl. I hope that nobody ever has the same experience I did and that any girl who chooses a STEM subject is treated equally and professionally.

Paul

No, well, that's good that you have had a good experience with regard being treated equal in the college. Do you feel that it's safe for women on campus with regards to the rise in sexual misconduct towards female students in our society at the minute in our campus, in specific like in general, like do you find? But in general, do you find that women feel safe due to the rise? There seems to be a massive rise in sexual misconduct against female students.

Hannah

Yeah, well, I guess see, I live at home, so I wouldn't really be roaming around the campus. Like as a woman, your brain is like don't be alone, don't be alone at nights, like don't walk at night. So I don't really know if it is that bad. I did a project in third year and it was on consent and I did a lot of research on consent in colleges. And it's actually shocking that, how many people don't even just do basic consent? I feel like it's not pushed enough in Ireland anyway. I know we're getting there. I feel like we're always a couple of steps behind, like, let's say the UK and other European countries. Like, I feel like we're always a bit behind the like moving along. And these things are being talked about now with the rise. And unfortunately, it takes the rise to actually talk about it. But yeah, I feel like there is a bit of work to do. I can't really speak personally. I have never gotten any anything but on campus, like, I've never felt like unsafe. But that's probably like speaking as a woman. It's probably because I'm not there at night roaming around alone, which is unfortunately what we have to think about as women.

Thoughts from You

In the modern day, though there were consent classes when I was there, things like assaults still happen very regularly. And that definitely ties into the issue of feminism. If women can attend college but don't feel safe being there, there's a bigger issue at play. I think issues like consent and respect for women should be discussed with both men and women from a much younger age, so that by the time people get to university and have a lot more freedom, women feel more comfortable that they won't be taken advantage of on the basis of gender. I studied media and English and had some classes on the portrayal of feminism in the media and on religion in the media, which really pointed out the stereotype that feminists were anti man and extreme when really women have been fighting for things that men have taken for granted for centuries, like access to education, the right to own a home and work and so on.

Paul

Do you feel like the college, like the student union, spreads awareness on this subject?

Hannah

Yeah, I think so. To be fair, I don't really read a lot of the emails that are sent out, and I do see ones with content like I, I don't know if it's the student union or DKIT, but I did the student ambassador for the first year when I was.

Hannah

For the first years when I was a third year, so that was a year and a bit ago. I went with them to a big play on consent and, I don't know if the was student union was involved or was it just DKIT, but they are pushing all these different ways for people to understand, like what is right and wrong. So I think there is efforts being made whether they're actually going into students brains or not, I have no clue.

Paul

Just to add on the student union, in the past few weeks, there's been a lot of promotion of period packs and stuff on the student union Instagram. Were you aware of this and what's your opinion on it? It's a very important issue that they're putting awareness on. There seems to be a lack in sanitary products for students.

Hannah

Well, first of all, I actually think that a lot of DKIT students didn't realize that the student union always had pads and tampons sitting there free to use. I've been stuck. I've been really stuck one time and I was like, OK, I got to go over. I do think it's like, I don't think people really know about it. I think it should be kind of put in every bathroom. Like "if you're stuck go to Students Union!". I know that Caitlin, she has been pushing period care and trying to get in like pads and tampons and things into all the bathrooms and trying to get it over to the Carroll's building. God and trying to push for all these things. And I know she's been, I saw her TikTok, she's been making period packs and everything, which I think is great. I know when Scotland, when they made period products free, it had been such a big thing, talking about it, and I know that it should be. Period poverty is still a thing which is just so sad. Like, honestly, women don't choose to have periods,it's just a thing that happens. And I think that these things should be like really easy accessibility, especially if you can't afford them, like they should just be there. And on the days where you don't have them and your stuck like I was.

Paul

You do a lot of promotion of sanitary products on your Instagram, do you feel like people have become more open to you about this sort of issue since doing all this promotion on social media?

Hannah

Yeah, definitely. I only have two videos so far, like it does take a lot of, I wouldn't say research, but making sure my facts are straight before talking about things because I don't want to ever put out the wrong information. So I started a video about my own experience that was grand and a lot of people talked to me about it because like I think periods are talked about, but your actual struggles in regard to your period, like growing up as a teenager, I had really bad cramps, I was dropping like flies for every month. But a lot of people started talking to me about their experiences. Then I want to do a video on the contraceptive pill as a form of helping your periods and I put up a question box on my Instagram and a lot of people came forward. I feel like a lot of people will talk about it once they know that you're not going to judge you or you're open as well. And also two of my friends that are lads watch videos and they're so interested in it and I'm delighted. I think it needs to be like, see when you're in sixth class when you're in primary school the girls and the boys are separated and the girls are taught about periods and the boys aren't, I think that's so silly. Like, how would you ever understand how the body works? How the reproductive system works if you don't know what a period is?

Paul

Oh yeah. Men don't seem to be that aware, like a few are, but predominantly...Like even working in the shop, if you say to one of the boys or to go and tidy cosmetics, they're like "oh I don't want to touch the pads". Like, it's just a tampon. They're just "always" [the brand] like honestly, they feel like it's going to bite them. I feel like there needs to be more discussion even with men, because they don't really show any empathy or compassion towards women when they are going through their periods because they just think, oh, it's just a sore stomach. Like they don't know, like the actual effects it has on them. I feel like there needs to be more done. What would you like to see change in regards to people being open about their periods?

Hannah

Well, definitely because I see a future in the next ten years or so that is way more diverse. There's going to be a lot of trans males who have periods, and I know that it'll be tough. What if they need to go to the bathroom and they need a tampon? It'll just be so awkward. It's like men are still not talking about periods when they're men who have periods. If you get what I mean. It's going to be very silly if we don't open the conversation, you know. I seen that there are a lot of men who are very curious about it, but are just very scared to say they are because they're mates might say "you're soft", like it's just seen as a "you're not a hard man if you want to talk with periods". There's a bit of work to be done.

Paul

I don't get why it's unmasculine to use the word period or to discuss it. That's just baffles me.

Hannah /

I know. I did catch my mam sometimes, like cringing if my dad's in the room and I'm talking about periods, but she snaps herself back out of it. Like it's a house full of women in this house and I'm like, "Dad, you have to be used to it by now, c'mon." I find it a bit silly that there's still people who would cringe at the word. I see it myself in the shop as well. I like I work in a shop and there's some lads who will come and say "my woman needs this", and i just tell them where they are, it's not that hard to find. It's right there.

Paul

What would you like to see change in D.K.I.T. with regards to the students union. What do you feel like they can do more with regards to female students or do you think they've done enough? Do you see that they can step the mile even further?

Hannah

It's hard to think right now because I'm like Covid brain and I feel for them, the three presidents right now. I know they had plans, espeacially Caitlin. I remember hearing her manifesto, she wanted to push for things like period care and all this stuff. But I do think that they need to keep rolling with the consent education. Just it's shocking hearing about all these stories now and the things I found out when I was doing that project that some people don't understand. With college you're drinking, you're meeting new people and it just all of a sudden become an unsafe environment. But, yeah, definitely pushing education on consent the minute the first year are in the door would be very important. And, yeah, keep this period care. I feel for them because they obviously would have had more plans but Covid said no. So hopefully we'll see it.

Paul

But do you feel that being more open will open the window for more to be open and then that will as soon as the doors start to open, more and more, we'll talk and then all of a sudden it will become a reality.

Hannah

Yeah, definitely. I feel like anything taboo that's talked about has a domino effect on other things. I don't know if you follow me on anything, but I'm so passionate about so many different things like LGBTQ equality, feminism and all this different stuff. And I just feel like any of those being addressed will have a domino effect as well. Like, for example, if more men, like if more men get interested in periods, then they'll have a domino effect. They might get more interested on feminine or just females. And then again, like what I was saying, if if men know about periods and understand them, that might have a domino effect on them. Understanding trans males have periods and this is why, then they'll be an understanding on trans equality. Like I definitely think that opening these conversations, like you have said, like will keep keep the ball rolling.

Paul

Yeah. Like, funny enough, when you mentioned transgender there, we were actually talking to Lauren Calhoon for the LGBTQ plus episode and she was mentioning how she pushed so passionately for gender neutral bathrooms and it took a while. Do you feel like they need to be in the college like ASAP? Because it's not really equality if people aren't able to use a bathroom?

Hannah

Yeah. I myself would be 100% okay with gender neutral bathrooms but I know that there are people who wouldn’t be. So I feel like if you keep the male and female bathrooms, but also have the gender neutral bathrooms on top of that, so that people have the option. At the end of the day, you don’t want to take away what people are used to and expect them to be okay with it. People like us might be fine but I know there would be people who are uncomfortable with that. I feel like having the option is a stepping stone to getting towards the society we want. Hopefully we will see it but obviously at the minutes thing have kind of been put to a stop. I would be personally 100% okay with it, and if anything it would be handy. I’ll be hanging out with my make friends when I have to go to the bathroom and I have to pause conversation. Whereas if I could just take them into the bathroom it would be great. [laughter]. Yeah, I know it’s a bigger issue than me and my conversations, but yeah. I think adding it on for people who are okay with it, but I know there are people who would be uncomfortable unfortunately.

Paul

I fell like there needs to be maybe a webinar or something for everyone to attend for these topics to be discussed. For those people who are naive maybe, get more of a perspective. To enlighten the minds of those who may not be knowledgeable on all these topics. I find a lot of people who can be judgemental are because they don’t know the full story. That needs to be pushed [greater education on periods, bathrooms, the lgbt community]. Even though with LGBTQ+ I feel like there’s been major breakthroughs in recent years, a lot more still needs to be discussed.

Hannah

Ignorance is bliss. It is just more information, more education and conversation about it and eventually people will come round. You’re dead right its all about communication and understanding.

Paul

Thank you, you’ve been brilliant. It’s been fun and very good learning about it. Obviously, I’m a male so I don’t have first-hand experience, but haring and learning about I tis all very helpful even for me.

Thoughts from you

So although there has been strides made in the grand scheme of things, I think there is still a way to go to ensuring that women feel safe and empowered in third level education.

THE END.

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