Episode 2. Living with a Disability

Paul

Today Coming up we have an interview with Eoghan waters alongside some with clips of your own experiences that you have shared with us so let’s get into it. Hi Eoghan and welcome to the new episode of Let’s Talk… today we are going to be discussing the inclusivity efforts with regards to people with a disability. My first question is do you feel there's a stigma around people with disabilities within colleges?

Eoghan

Absolutely, now within my own experience, not necessarily. The thing I have to clarify up front is what we call an invisible disability, I am missing leg. So that means I’m wearing a prosthetic that means that when I walk around I don't, other than the days where I might have a limp, which would just be if I have a bad day if its particular sore which can happen often enough but other than that I might get a few looks. I don't get any comments because people don't see it, it’s only when I bring it to someone’s attention, and I have been very lucky that in my college experience I have had very few bad experiences with disability. I'm incredibly lucky in that regard that my own personal experience has been relatively okay. but I think there's a huge stigma around disability around different kinds of disability and about accessibility and accessibility is important. I think that’s where I see the biggest stigma.

Paul

Do you find that because you've an invisibility disability because it’s so unknown when you do say to people, do you find that maybe they are a bit taken by from it, and do you maybe treat it differently then as opposed to when they didn't know you had a disability?

Eoghan

I think so, I think you know one thing were are lucky about in college is that we are all young, I do think people are getting better so I think there is I do notice sometimes there is a you known a good acting attempt to not do that you do notice it right, the change in the way people talk to you and the way people view you and what I find is that it’s not always bad or malicious for the other side looking in, for example one day I am walking into the college canteen I walk over to a group of friends who I see just sitting at a table, and there sitting with their course mates and so I am just talking to them whatever and one of them makes a fairly regular leg joke like this guy I have known my whole life so it doesn't bother me you know, he can take the piss out of me for whatever he wants I take the piss out of him, so that's fine because her makes a pretty regular leg joke which I laugh at . and one of his mates from his course goes fuck, he's a little taken back by this, and I turn around and oh yeah shit sorry I have a prosthetic and I explain it, and he’s like oh my god oh my god I wouldn't have known, you walk perfectly fine you walk perfectly normally and he’s like god your great for that and on the outset this is a very nice thing to say, I know myself this is him trying to be really nice, really kind and trying to encourage, and so I’m like oh yeah no thanks but you know when you think back on the wording normal oh your wonderful for it, it’s like I am just walking and there are days it’s different per day and there is days where I am having trouble walking like that it feels great but there are days were are I am not that different you know, people will kind of overcompensate and its one on hand again, I try to go with the basis of everyone is trying their best, you always assume that someone means something in the nicest way possible but what I would find is that there becomes a point where it becomes dehumanizing, where it’s a very fine line, I feel like I find I sound very entitled saying that right oh god poor me because people want to help me its very kind people but there's a very fine line between being seen as someone who may need supports which is absolutely true and great when people acknowledge it, there's is a very fine line in how people see you.

Paul

Have you ever experienced any negativity because of your disability? anything that's out of the ordinary?

Eoghan

People just looking at me differently, looking at me weirdly, you know I think in college I didn't have experienced it quite as much, it was a lot more prevalent when I was younger in school but even its something people are uncomfortable with you find you turn around and say to someone like I have a disability I have a prosthetic, some people are creeped out by it, which is odd to me and then the worse example I have had that sticks out to me and it probably sticks to out to me because it’s not classical ableism its not someone going your disabled your useless [laugh] not some maniacal villain. my friends and one of my friends is introducing me to a friend of his and so it’s me my friend and these two girls he’s friend with, he introduces me and he says “this is Eoghan, Eoghan has a disability” and I have known this guy me my whole life so he introduces me with leg and that’s fine and this girls like ah stop it stop it I think she thought I just had a bad limp or something I don’t know what she thought but she’s going ah stop it leave him alone and my friend mimes that these two people are really close and he’s like what are you on about he has the prosthetic, and she’s not believe him and he’s like here and he puts her hand on the leg and I’m standing here and this is bordering on embarrassing and the girls standing there and you know I don’t know how much she drank that night it very easily could have been just she was really really drunk but she looks at me, she looks at my friend, she looks at her other friend, she looks at me and full volume in the smoking room starts screaming, full on screaming. And runs away, like I was Frankenstein's monster, and I stood there with my jaw on the floor, my friend stood there with his jaw on the floor, this girl has never acted anything like this, this is the last thing I would have expected, the person I felt the most sorry for was her friend who is standing there and her eyes were darting back and forth going the fuck did you just do. Me who was getting the biggest I am so so sorry eyes and her friends who is currently running across the club away from me going the fuck do I do? Her eyes are jarring back and forth between all these things and she just turns around and goes I am so so sorry I better go get her and disappears, she did the best thing she could there, she didn't have to apologise she did nothing wrong, but I just stood there and its only in the last two years since I have realised that I just stood there in bewilderment, I had to leave, what else do you do, I don’t blame my friend for the whole thing because I am going this is no different from our normal interactions, I never saw it as an issue because I never got a reaction like that because no one had ever been terrified so I didn't blame him, I didn't blame the girls friend, I mean she had nothing to do with it. And I didn’t blame the girl herself because I didn’t know how much she’s drank so that may not be her typical reaction to someone with a disability, but I just stood there in bewilderment at the whole thing.

Paul

Do you feel like experiences like that can deeply affect the mental health of people with a disability because there viewed like that, that experience actually quite shocked me there, do you think by experiencing something like that it just puts them in a completely difference mindset and makes them feel like they’re an outsider to society?

Eoghan

Yeah hit it on the head, you beat me to it. The word I would use for the experience of someone with a disability is othered. And what’s ironic is that 90 per cent of the time the experience of being othered is done by the person with the disability in this case me. Right you sometimes have cases like this where that happens but 90% of the time it’s the person with the disability that does it, at least in my experience I can’t speak for others same with people obviously but the best way to put it is the microaggressions of everyone around that means that they don’t realise that they do that stand out and make the disabled person feel othered and that is the general experience, the experience of feeling othered, the experience of feeling different which is really difficult, what i have noticed in looking at different minority groups there’s a very fine balance between wanting to be othered and not wanting to be othered, right in the case of disabled people, disabled people genuinely need help in cases , I am lucky that I can walk so steps are okay for me there are people who need a ramp who cannot get by without a ramp, so there are just places that are 100% inaccessible without a ramp or a lift meanwhile you look at different communities, the black community, the Asian community, or different communities you might be talking about culture, what’s the line between wanting to be included in other people cultures while having your own? And so just in my experience of looking at any minority group, there is a very fine line. And it is very difficult to balance. And it's difficult for other people balance as well, right? People outside the group between feeling others, and me getting what they need, if that makes sense.

Paul

No, no honest, honestly, you are, you're speaking a lot of sense there. It's it nails it on the head, like the perspective of how people have a disability do feel when they do, they're confronted with an altercation like that. Do you find that people with a disability access counselling, and to sort of help cope, with experiences like that?

Eoghan

Yeah, absolutely. I think counselling is incredibly important for people with disabilities, I recently just started the counselling experience. And it's, it's, I mean, I think everyone should, regardless of whether you're in a minority group or not go to counselling, I think that the, the experiences, it's the small ones like that, again, that experience that I told to you, to my counsellor, and my counsellor, like you having your jaw on the floor. And going. And I just, I just hear that

Paul

Yeah, no, it was very jaw dropping, like, it's not something you would ever expect. It's not something I would have ever expected. But I think it's because I do have quite an open mind. I feel like it's nothing to do with us. Like, we shouldn't be judging anyone with that, like, they can't help that like it's nothing, it's whereas those people who seem to be very judgmental about it, which does quite baffle me.

Eoghan

Yeah. And I think it's, it's quite odd, right? And how have some people really do get bothered by it? Right? And why does it matter to certain people that disabled people like, what I just would like to know, in general, when I see people with these kind of mindsets is okay, how does the place having a ramp poorly impact you? What is wrong with the disabled people getting supports? And what is wrong with disabled people existing? Why do they have to be othered? I, I just think it's a very odd thing to me in the way people act in the way they I just don't understand how some of these people see the world. And, like, I think what's really important to emphasize about the story I told is that I don't think that the girl had any issues with me as a disabled person. I genuinely don't I don't know if it was shock. I don't know if it was, I don't know what it was. Because I don't think it was classical ableism. But I think that's the interesting thing. But before this, Sinead said to me, is there anything in particular that shouldn't be said the two words that I jumped to, or handicap and cripple, but even then, you know, in the experience, like, it's not, they do not equal the n word, they just don't, or the F word when it comes to the LGBT community, right? Like disabled people don't have these, you know, very these very specific aggressions, right that you find with other groups instead, with disabled people, it's their mere existence. Now, I'm not trying to diminish, because that is horrible and that is another issue. That is an issue for other minority groups. And so I'm not trying to diminish anything. But it's, I think, what I've also noticed is there's a lot of trying to pick [at it]. And this also happens in other minority groups where, you know, if you're talking about the black community, you're talking about how light or dark skinned tone is, in the disabled community, it's how disabled are you and there's again, there's a lot of trying to pick people against each other and what you I guess I best put with the fact that for a very long time, I struggled with accepting that I was disabled because I want well, I have one leg right? Which is such a stupid thing to say. And I think it's you know, whether it's how, you know, like how, how disabled Are you or trying to diminish a bisexual because they can, you know, I'm doing quotation marks here, but paths, you know what I mean? Like there's a lot of that in it all, it's just trying to understand people's mindsets and why they have these issues, why they feel like, you know, what I wonder is how does my disability affect someone that isn't disabled? It doesn't? How does it affect anyone else that is disabled, my disability is mine and mine alone. And the only people that may affect are the people in my life who I let it affect. And then in that case, it's up to them to decide if they want to be in my life or not. But beyond that, it affects no one other than me. Yeah, it's very difficult to wrap your head around. I feel like I cut off topic a little bit. But I feel like it's very difficult to wrap your head around. Why do people think the way they do about these things, what is the driving force for their mindset? I will say that there is to an extent especially even like a jumping back to disability slurs, in my experience when I say is, and this is very different to say the N word, which I think is a lot more defined. It's just being awful. In my experience, particularly handicap is a word I hear quite a lot. And it's incredibly ableist. Because if I turn around and call someone a handicap, I'm calling them to save it. And the implication is that being disabled is a bad thing. But I do find that in particular, with that word, it's I find that use a lot and I go, that's not the ablest connotation. Sometimes I wonder if people realize that ableist and so I think particularly with disability, I wonder how much of a of it is misinformation or lack of information?

Paul

Like, it just shows you how harsh people can be? And the next question is, in regard to college do you feel like more awareness to disabilities to get rid of the stigma, with regard to people with disabilities?

Eoghan

So for me. Well, what I'll point to right is, so I think we are all DKIT students here, you know, and when, last year they were running, there was the SU elections, right? And they did the big SU debate with the three main candidates. I'll be honest, I can't remember who the other two besides Taidgh were. But what stood out to me during that election process was that I went to that debate, and a knew one of the guys helping Taidgh for this campaign. And so I walked out. And he said, Well, are you going to vote for Taidgh. I went actually yeah, I think so. which normally, someone says that to me, and immediately turns me off the vote. It's like, okay, don't be asking me to, you know, let me make up my own mind. And I turned around and said, “This guy”, and I said, He's the only person who mentioned it there. I said, the rest of them didn't even acknowledge it. Now, there was reasonable items. There's a lot of cases like that. But I thought it stood out that no one else taught even to mention disability. And so he turned around, and i said this to him and Taidgh walks out and this guy pulls Taidgh aside and he says, Hey, this is Eoghan he said, he wants to vote for you because of this and Taidgh turns around and he said, my grandmother had a prosthetic leg. And people don't talk about it enough. I think that stood out to me in two ways. Number one, it stood out to me that someone talked about it because I think the biggest issue with the college because I think the college Disability Services, at least in my experience are pretty good in terms of the actual college itself. But what stood out to me was that the biggest issue is misinformation. It's people not talking about it, it's people not knowing what to say, or when to say it. And then beyond that, I guess it stood out to me that the only person to acknowledge it was the only person who had disability in the lives. So I do feel like I feel like right, and this is going to sound very heavy and entitled but throughout the last year, we have seen campaign upon campaign for very good causes for helping different communities, the black community, the Asian community, the LGBT community, and so on, so forth. And so what I've noticed is then, in real sort of online conversation, you will see people who list out all of the minority groups, and I always just noticed the lack of mention of disability. That's what stands out to me. And it stands out in terms of the college environments, the college stigma, which is that people aren't talking about it. I don't feel like they push Disability Services enough. It shocked me that someone in the SU mentioned that because disability itself is so background. And I think there's still an extent to which when you sit and you talk and you go Okay, but, there's nothing different about x minority and but I think people still view disabled people as a burden. And I think that while the college services are good, and it was shocking and amazing to hear Tadhg mention disability, it just isn't pushed enough? I don't think I think that there's a lot of there is there's a lot of stigma. Yeah, this, I think, I think that the biggest thing the college can do, because again, in my experiences, the Disability Services in the college are pretty good lectures for the most part are good. You know, I've had the odd conversation with the lecture of, Hey, I haven't been able to make to this class, because of my leg, I have to go to hospital because my leg for this reason for the most part, lectures are very understanding. And when talking to people in the SU, individually, they're all great about it. So you know, from the one on one experiences, they're great, but it's hearing someone actually talk about it without prompt that shocked me, and that I think needs to be done more.

Paul

So, with regards to colleges, what would you like to see in the future being done with regards to further promotion of disabilities?

Eoghan

Trying to create a more inclusive environment, which sounds very broad? It sounds like a bit of a non answer. But I guess for me, it's first of all, promoting Disability Services. The only reason I know about disability services, is because I went through DARE. And so for the leaving cert, and so I kind of got put on that track by them. But you know, you see a stall once a year about disability services. And that said, There is very little information, I find that while once I was in the service, it was a great service, the individual people, there are wonderful people and very accommodating a lot of those things are very difficult to approach. And they're also difficult to approach from your mental health standpoint, right. So it's, I think college is putting disabled people front and centre trying to find ways to trying to find ways to and this is a very difficult thing to do. Like, I don't necessarily have an answer on how to do this, but how to put disabled people front and centre in a good way and in a tasteful way, which is you don't want to turn around and be like, okay, like, let's just let's start a social media campaign to make us look good. You know, like, that's, that's not what disabled people are for. But it's so there's a very fine line there, right between making it tasteful. I genuinely don't know how, what exactly you do. And then also, I am very lucky, as I said, I have an invisible disability, I wear a prosthetic leg, I can walk. So when it comes to going out to Ridley’s for a college night, I am perfectly fine. But I don't think that college events are particularly accessible. And I think that that is a problem. I think that trying to make them inclusionary and trying to point out that their inclusionary I think just in general, I think what colleges need to do, because again, I can only speak for DKIT it's the only college I've been to, but the college seems pretty accessible, there are lifts around, you do have to go looking for a key, but they do exist, right. So the whole college is technically accessible. I think it's less about making the college itself accessible, and more about making the image, social aspects and the kind of messages that the college are putting out accessible, and really fighting to kill that they can keep. That's what that's what colleges need to do.

Paul

No Eoghan everything you said there is it's very, it's very true. Like there is a lot of change that still needs to be made. And it is very good that the Student Union have been bringing, a light to disabilities in the past in the recent year. Like I feel like the Student Union at the minute have been extremely good with ethnic minority groups like they have been bringing a lot of awareness to different communities such as LGBTQ, the black community as well, and the disability community and also various different ones. Like do you feel that if colleges don't have required services, or even placed in general, do you feel that is completely unacceptable? Considering the sort of level in society we are today? Like in today's generation? Do you feel like it is absolutely unacceptable for there to be no facilities for people with disabilities?

Eoghan

Absolutely. I think that I think, I think that in 2021, after the kind of year that we had not talking about COVID. But talking about all of the different things that have happened over the last year or two, I think that colleges with every minority group need to seriously up your game. And I think that a college that doesn't have isn't accessible to any group because you know, accessibility and is a term used typically with disability, you know, but I think it goes further than that. I think the second a college is inaccessible to any group, and stigmatizing group. I mean, I don't, you can just see we've all I’m sure We've all seen what's going on with a NUIG. And I think the second set of college fails one group, they failed them all. And whether that means having an accessible campus, whether that means having an inviting campus, you know, whether that means having the services in place to deal with whether it is in the case of disability, whether it is manoeuvring around the college, getting the supports needed, you know, disabilities, like, I've spoken most this time with physical disabilities, of course, that's there, you know, there's also mental disabilities. And they go, they range in their effect colleges supporting lab, or providing laptops, providing support, support staff, for people, even just counselling services, because having a disability can prove challenging. And there can be some experiences there that, as I said, I approached counselling, and I did not realize how much baggage existed until I sat there and started talking and went, oh god, maybe this is, maybe this is a little darker than I think that you know, and that can go for any group, minority group, I am sure that, unfortunately, a lot of other minority groups would have the same experience of walking into counselling, and all of a sudden realizing a lot of the things that they would shrug off their shoulders then turned out to be pretty damaging. So yeah, I think it's absolutely essential. I think if a college doesn't do these things, it is failing, I think that they should be a given, it shouldn't be a question on whether a college is accessible to any group.

Paul

Do you feel that having a disability sort of dictate what course you choose? Because of accessibility?

Eoghan

Yes, but the one thing I'll say this is just my own personal opinion, is that there's an extent to which that is a nature of being disabled. And to which it's on the College, where I'm doing business, what I am doing, probably the easiest course of the college for disabled students to do, I cannot speak to the experiences of disabled people doing science, doing nursing, doing, you know, more art based courses, you know, film and TV, music, but I can't, you know, I have to question how much it is on college to help with a disabled student doing sports science, that, that would that would be my own personal opinion. And that is a lack of knowledge on my end about how those courses work, I just my own experience with lack of accessibility with sports, you know, there are accessible sports, for sure. And, you know, I don't know how you would work that in to a course like Sport Science, I think would be great to try and do that and to try and make these things accessible. I think it wasn't even something I thought of until I sat there. But you're thinking about when like film and TV where you might have to go off and do a shoot elsewhere, making sure that there are services to get the disabled students, wherever they need to go and disabled students might not be able to walk, and they might not have the resources to get themselves there. So I think things like that, but I guess to me, I guess I, I always wanted to do business. So never questioned this. And I never questioned on whether business would be accessible. It just always seemed like if any course is going to be accessible its business, I just wonder how much that this is on the college and how much of it is in nature of being disabled. At the end of the day, the college can always try to offer those services and try to entice disabled students to feel welcome in these environments, the college will never do enough. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think you can always do more, you should always strive to do more, especially as an organization.

Paul

Are you aware if there is a society for people with disability in the college? And if there isn't, you feel like there should be one?

Eoghan

I'm not aware if there is or not. I have been to a lot of the like, you know, the open days and look through the societies. It's not something I've ever noticed. But the only thing I'll say is because again, I don't know if there is or not. If there is, I wouldn't be shocked if because I think my own attitude towards disability has changed a lot in the last few years since I started. I wouldn't be shocked if my own outlook at the time was that I wasn't disabled enough to join a society, which is ridiculous. So I'll say it out because it could exist and I could have overlooked it and said that's enough for me. But if there is Isn't there absolutely should be because I think, I think if I was on campus, I probably would have looked for that in the last year because I would have been more comfortable going into that environment. And I think that the biggest issue at the end of the day I feel with disability is that I don't know many people with disabilities, never mind my own disability, what is it? What is inclusivity representation matter, right? I, I just didn't see it. And then I thought back to as a child watching how to train your dragon random DreamWorks movie, I'm watching it, I'm thinking like grand this is a grand DreamWorks movie. And in the final act, hiccup, the main protagonist loses his leg and shows up with a prosthesis at the end of film and keeps on going. And their 10 year old or went bald, and I looked back and I went, oh, maybe you're a little bit close minded on this, maybe it does matter. And I think that giving people the opportunity to interact with people like themselves to see people like themselves would really help with killing that otherness right? I think that we would have, you know, a, someone who's like me in first year, who maybe was embarrassed about being disabled, not embracing the fact that they're disabled, and feeling like the bad part of them exists only as a burden. I think that giving those people environments to be comfortable is really important. I think you see that another call it like, again, I don't know that DKIT society system is like that I tried to join the gaming society, and everything ran during the day, during my classes, I never got to go. So I've never had a great experiences experience in DKIT with societies, but in regards to other colleges that I see, you know, I have a friend who is in the DCU, LGBT Hughes society. And I mean, the wonders that's done for them, right. So I think that you can see it in other colleges how society that allows people to be true to themselves can impact.

Paul

It is very important for there to be like, a society for everyone, especially, in college, like no matter what minority group you fall under, like, it feels a lot, you feel a lot more included, if you go into a college with a society for everyone. Because, like, I know with DKIT we have, like, we've got the circus society, we've got LGBTQ one, we've got a horse ride one, there's a traditional music one, and there's like various different types of societies. So I do think like, You touched very well that like there is there's a need for one, if there isn't one already. And maybe if there is one already, there needs to be more promotion towards that, like more of a more of an awareness on social media. And do you feel like pandemic has sort of impacted like people with a disability in a more of a negative light?

Eoghan

From my own experience, right? I am currently wearing a prototype, like basically, I'm in the process of getting a new one. And I've been given a not fully finished version of it to walk around with for two weeks, and you know, kind of figure out what the issues are. And even before that, I've had issues with being able to walk for long periods, and which definitely, first of all, any disabled person is going to be impacted by a new sort of society standard that tells him to stay inside because it's very difficult to get that fresh air and that sort of fitness that they need. The little bit my I kind of got by on my walks to and from college, and then the odd walk into town every week. And I think you see, you know, I mean, the absolute War, when they were opening and closing gyms, people going, I need the gym to get by. And people saying, well just go for a walk. And some people turning saying that with that they'll walk every day, they'd have lost their mind. I don't many days feeling like I cannot go for a walk today. I just can't do this, you know, and there are days where absolutely can there are days where I can do multiple laps of the entire time. You know, there are days where there are days where I just can't.

Paul

Do you feel that a college is very open minded with regards to you know, the way that people with disabilities who miss like a lot of college days if you find like you're marked in it doesn't affect your attendance given the chance to catch up very easily. And even when odd chance you're provided with like, notes or whatever.

Eoghan

I think that's I couldn't answer that based on the college. I can answer based on the lecture. I think there are lecturers who will turn around And, you know, I had in first year, I had a quantitative techniques lecture who I stopped after class and said, Hey, listen, I'm going to be missing a few days here, and I'm worried about my SUSI attendance. And he said, don't worry about it. Like, you know, like, you know, you're missing for these reasons. And there are some who will turn around and just give me some evidence, but even then allow them to follow it up. You know, like, it's okay. Like, a lot of them are understanding, you can turn around and say, Hey, listen, I was gone for this reason. And this, these notes, but sometimes you will find some lecturers who are a bit more spiteful, and who will give you the same attitude they gave you, if you turned around and said, Well, I didn't come in because I was hung over. And, you know, like, I, I have opinions on that too, right? If your hung over your hung over, right, if you miss, if you miss a lecture, it's not very difficult to give the sheets that you have the spare sheet you have sitting in front of you. But you know, it's one thing when someone misses up because of their own actions. But when that's not in their control, I think some lectures don't acknowledge that. And I think that it's absolutely not fair. But I, I will say that, for the most part, I have had good experiences with lecturers.

Paul

No, I'm glad to hear that, like, it's nice, it's refreshing to hear that there is like their support and students who are listening or is like, can be maybe lecturers that can be quite upset, because there are isn’t people attending. So it is nice to know that they're very understanding and are very helpful towards you and achieve in your grades open from mine to a lot of stuff that even I didn't know about, like the experiences disability, people would, would have like, it's, it's definitely going to help open the minds of listeners when they do listen to this episode, because there needs to be more attention brought to this minority group. And hopefully, there will be like in the next upcoming elections for Student Union, hopefully, there'll be more promotion of help for disabilities, maybe even more groups set up with regards to it, because it'll be nice to see. And because it seems to be because people understand that people are born with disabilities, the thing to vary the theme to sort of push that minority to the side and go for all these different minorities.

Eoghan

I think, you know, the biggest thing I can say kind of to tie it all, is I talked about kind of different points, how you know, like, going back to the story I told you, right, I've said, I don't necessarily judge, the girl who screamed, right? I don't know that that was intentional, the biggest thing I can say about any minority group, and to any minority group dealing with people outside of the group is empathy. Empathy is, I think, something that is so lost on so many people and trying to have the benefit of the doubt. And there are obviously people out there who are horrible, and who will take any chance to crap on you and bully you and use you for what makes you different. But I think a lot of people are genuinely trying. And I think that a lot. And I also think that then on the other side, you know, it's really important to be empathetic to the experiences of other groups that you don't understand and to try and you don't have to understand them. Because you can't, I cannot understand the experiences of someone from the LGBT community, right off the bat. I can't I didn't have those experiences. But I can try and be empathetic to them. And I think that On the flip side, I can try and be empathetic to the person who's trying to say the right thing about disability and maybe gets it wrong. And I think that so often, we get so caught up in being defensive on both sides of the coin. And often, you know, I think I think people push things to aggression very quickly. And I think it's, it's something I just feel really strongly about that if if we all use a little bit more empathy, in how we looked at people and situations. And, you know, listen, if I find in my own experience, it's very, very easy to tell the difference between someone who is genuine and someone who is malicious and the malicious ones exist. They exist a lot. There's a lot of but I think trying to trying to gauge that difference. And then yourself. So you know, from my perspective, maybe not as a disabled person, but as a man or a white person or someone who's straight, trying to embrace the experiences of other minority groups and trying to understand and trying to invite Rather than getting defensive, because I think you will find a lot of people and again, I've been guilty of it, right, where a lot of people will, things that seem very normal to them. but the second it gets aggressive for very fair reasons on the part of the minority, you know, if you get frustrated, it jumps to defence and it jumps, you know, well why not this, why not that? Well, why don't you try listening? And I think so that, the biggest thing I can say is that they just try and understand how other people feel and how other people live and try and be exacting, because at the end of the day, you know, no, no, one person is better than anyone else.

Paul

Eoghan Thank you so much for chatting to us today and it was very interesting and I have definitely learned a lot from this meeting and I think a lot of people will take from this and hopefully in the upcoming years and even in the upcoming weeks with the student union election there will be more of an awareness to disability.

Eoghan

Hopefully, well thank you so much for having me this was wonderful so it was, genuinely and I hope that it can remind some people on issues they don’t see

THE END.

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